In climate, one can work on many factors in isolation, for example, efficiency in industry, that has a positive climate impact, or reducing water particularly in areas like coal plants, that consume a lot of water, or data centres. Involving citizens in the conversation, however, ensures agreement on common objectives and unites the various stakeholders required to tackle such issues. According to him, these problems are almost always the result of citizen involvement, especially from those who are directly impacted by the actions, and are rarely internal to any one organisation, regardless of size.